https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=welsh+sheepdog&oq=welsh+sheepdog&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l4.12734.13662.0.13868.5.5.0.0.0.0.90.318.5.5.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.5.315.TDJ-6CxJm_s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Sheepdog
The Welsh Sheepdog (Welsh: Ci Defaid Cymreig, pronounced [kiː dɛˈvaɪd kəmˈrɛɨɡ]) is a landrace of herding dog from Wales. It is sometimes known as the Welsh Collie.
Like other types of working dog, Welsh Sheepdogs are normally bred for their herding abilities rather than appearance, and so they are generally somewhat variable in build, colour and size. Welsh Sheepdogs are of collie type, usually black-and-white, red-and-white or tricolour, and merle markings may occur over any of these combinations. The coat may be short or fairly long, and the ears are pricked, but usually folded at the tip. They are longer in leg, broader in chest and wider in muzzle than the Border Collie. They are extremely active and intelligent, and therefore need much exercise and mental stimulation, if they are to be kept as pets.
Over many decades the Welsh Sheepdog has largely been replaced for working sheep in Wales by the Border Collie, a standardised breed. However, in more recent years, efforts have been made to maintain the indigenous Welsh Sheepdog as a distinct variety.
Welsh Sheepdogs are usually of loose-eyed action, not fixing the stock with their gaze like the strong-eyed Border Collie. They are able to work independently without necessarily being under direct human control. Welsh Sheepdogs are most often used for herding sheep, but also readily work cattle, goats, and even horses and pigs. Traditionally they were often used as droving dogs to take cattle and sheep to markets locally or elsewhere in Britain.
At one time there existed many sheep-herding dogs peculiar to Wales; during the 18th century Welsh drovers taking sheep for sale took with them five or six sheepdogs as "herders on the narrow roads, guards against highwaymen, and providers of game on the route".[1] These were an early type of Welsh Sheepdog, higher on the leg and more racily built than the modern day breed.[1]
However, by the 1940s the group had decreased to two or three breeds only.[1] The ancient pure breeds of Black-and-Tan Sheepdog and Welsh Hillman were almost extinct, and were scarcely seen working. The type best known in Wales at that time was mostly descended from the old Black-and-Tan with an infusion of working Border Collie blood.[1]
In the 1940s the Welsh Sheepdog was still common throughout the north and central Welsh counties. In herding activities, it did not normally work low to the ground in "the showy manner sometimes seen in the work of the working [Border] Collies", as British dog fancier C. L. B. Hubbard put it in 1948.[1] It was variable in type; approximately 18 in (46 cm) in height, but the weight ranged from the lighter built, leggier dog of North Wales at 35 lb (16 kg) to the more solid 40 to 45 lb (18 to 20 kg) dogs of Glamorganshire and Monmouthshire. There were no dog show classes for the Welsh Sheepdog as it was purely a working breed.[1]
...
Originally, the dogs were used not just for working huge tracts of open land, but also for protection against wolves and robbers.
"Drovers would use the dogs to herd sheep and cattle, hundreds of miles up to the fattening pastures of England," says farmer Huw Thomas. "On the way back, once the stock had been sold, these lads would be travelling with pocketfuls of money, so sheepdogs made effective guard dogs."
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The Australian Kelpie, or simply Kelpie, is an Australian sheep dog successful at mustering and droving with little or no guidance. It is a medium-sized dog and comes in a variety of colours. The Kelpie has been exported throughout the world and is used to muster livestock, primarily sheep, cattle and goats.
The ancestors of the Kelpie were simply (black) dogs, called Colleys or Collies. The word collie has the same root as coal and collier (a ship).[3][4] Some of these collies were imported to Australia for stock work in the early 19th century, and were bred to other types of dogs (possibly including the occasional Dingo), but always with an eye to working sheep without direct supervision. Today's Collie breeds were not formed until about ten or 15 years after the Kelpie was established as a breed,[5] with the first official Border Collie not brought to Australia until after Federation in 1901.[6]
Kelpies are partly descended from Dingoes, with 3–4% of their genes coming from the native Australian dog.[7] At the time of the origin of the breed, it was illegal to keep dingoes as pets, some dingo owners registered their animals as Kelpies or Kelpie crosses. Kelpies and dingoes are similar in conformation and colouring. There is no doubt that some people have deliberately mated dingoes to their Kelpies, and some opinion holds that the best dilution is 1/16–1/32, but that 1/2 and 1/4 will work.[8] As the Dingo has been regarded as a savage sheep-killer since the first European settlement of Australia, few will admit to the practice.[8]
The first dog called a Kelpie was a black and tan female pup with floppy ears bought by Jack Gleeson about 1872[9] from a litter born on Warrock Station near Casterton, owned by George Robertson, a Scot. This dog was named kelpie after the kelpie, a mythological shape shifting water spirit of Celtic folklore.[10] Legend has it that "Kelpie" was sired by a dingo, but there is little evidence for or against this. In later years she was referred to as "(Gleeson's) Kelpie", to differentiate her from "(King's) Kelpie", her daughter.
The second "Kelpie" was "(King's) Kelpie", another black and tan bitch out of "Kelpie" by "Caesar", a pup from two sheepdogs imported from Scotland. However, challenges have been made[according to whom?] that these two sheepdogs were not from Scotland and may have had dingo blood.[citation needed] "(King's) Kelpie" tied the prestigious Forbes Trial in 1879,[11] and the strain was soon popularly referred to as "Kelpie's pups", or just Kelpies. The King brothers joined another breeder, McLeod, to form a dog breeding partnership whose dogs dominated trials during 1900 to 1920.[9]
An early Kelpie, Sally, was mated to Moss, a smooth haired Collie, and she produced a black pup that was named Barb after The Barb, a black horse which had won the Melbourne Cup in 1866. Consequently, black Kelpies became known as Barb Kelpies.[12]
There were a number of Kelpies named Red Cloud. The first and most famous was John Quinn's Red Cloud in the early 20th century. In the 1960s, another Red Cloud became well known in Western Australia. This started the tradition in Western Australia of calling all red or red and tan Kelpies, especially those with white chests, Red Cloud Kelpies.[13] Other notable specimens include Gunner and Red Dog (c. 1971 – 21 November 1979), a Kelpie mix which was the subject of a movie, Red Dog, released in 2011.
Kelpies have now been exported to many countries including Argentina, Canada, Italy, Korea, New Caledonia, New Zealand, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States for various pursuits.[12]
Kelpie circa 1915
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A Working Kelpie can be a cheap and efficient worker that can save farmers and graziers the cost of several hands when mustering livestock.[23] The good working Kelpies are herding dogs that will prevent stock from moving away from the stockman.[24] This natural instinct is crucial when mustering stock in isolated gorge country, where a good dog will silently move ahead of the stockman and block up the stock (usually cattle) until the rider appears. The preferred dogs for cattle work are Kelpies, often of a special line, or a Kelpie cross.[25] They will drive a mob of livestock long distances in extremes of climates and conditions. Kelpies have natural instincts for managing livestock. They will work sheep, cattle, goats, pigs, poultry, and other domestic livestock. The Kelpie's signature move is to jump on the backs of sheep and walk across the tops of the sheep to reach the other side and break up the jam. A good working Kelpie is a versatile dog—they can work all day on the farm, ranch, or station, and trial on the weekends. Kelpies compete and are exhibited in livestock working trials, ranging from yards or arenas to large open fields working sheep, goats, cattle, or ducks.[12]
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ME-could you give me any info about dogs in Molly's background/pedigree?
MATT- only on sali's side sorry, Indies side is completely undocumented, all I can tell you is the mother is pure mali, the father is a mixed bred farm dog. Dude got the mother "off a fella on another farm" and that is pretty much it.
Sali has sport dogs in her ped but her direct parents are both working dogs
the mother is a game keepers dog
Yes, that's amazing! 
and the father is either a military police or police dog if the dude wasnt filling me full of shit
Right, cool!!!
never know see cos people in the dog world are often full of shit
people in general are! ha ha
yah
sali's grandsire on her mother side is an IPO dog from KNPV breeding
lemme have look again not looked as sali's ped in ages
Keep the info coming!!! 
yes
so
If I remember correctly U'vito shows up the most in her ped (which is fairly obvious in her father) but she takes most after the perle de tourbierre dogs
especially Othar
who she has passed down to Rosie and I think Rosie only.
the dog Mr Hanky I think is taking mostly after the U'vito dog but need to see him in real life
Molly is mostly coming from somewhere in Indies ped i would say, with some aspects of sali thrown in the mix
the dog Dingo1 perle de tourbierre was an IPO dog that died unexpectedly in some freak accident on a ferry (or so i was told)
Great info, Matt
I know next to fuck all about sali's mothers mother line
but her top line is mostly made of NBVK on her fathers motherline
Cool
I will copy and paste all this... (into my notes)
but as you go back in her fathers fatherlibe you get to perle de tourbiere again and more KNPV dogs
I'll look all that stuff up.
in terms of her general appearance and mental attitude I would say she resembles NBVK more than anything else appart from her size.
I saw Vongraf in there. I know Earl, the breeder.
OK, cool.
her character is more like the tourbiere dogs if that makes any sense lol
I'll see what I think once we've bonded a bit and played/worked together!
What are the tourbiere dogs like, then?
its weird, she's like a bit schizophrenic (sali) she'll work like a perle ded tourbiere dog but then bite like an NBVK dog
very boundy
bouncy
very drivey pushy energetic dogs
very sport like
theres tons of them on youtune
youtube
but sadly none of Othar 
booooooooooo
most of the tourbiere dogs on youtube are doing IPO
OK
More stuff to research! LOL
strong and calm grips (which Sali can show) whereas Sali tries to eat and inhale the equipment like the u'vito dog
I'll try and find a vid to show you sali with her calm grip
Yes, please!
anyway long story short I wouldn't describe sali as sport breeding, ped maybe rather she is work bred with sport ped. The guy that bred her is old school man, he wouldn't feed a sport dog, her mother is a fucking little beast
lol
OK, understood.
I mean you can describe it however you like, lol, I'm saying i look at it that way myself if you get me
anyway
here's sali as a pup showing calm grip
I think that is aup to 6 months old
up
Cool beans. Will look v. shortly (just writing something else first...)
yeah no worries
I'm just babbling man
she has a genetic pushing bite, she also has a very serious streak so she doesnt like doing bitework with me as a decoy and gets into conflict so I just do dumb prey IPO shite with her and will pull the sleeve to win it. When it is on someone else she pushes and gets into a fight place in her mind then the eating will start lol
I shaped her bite alot towards IPO style bitework at first as that is what I was going to do with her but it soon became aparent that she was more suited to ring stuff so I switched her over to that.
like maybe 18months or so I think
she has passive bite shit like that
which is all a waste of time really because Molly is like Indie more, dont think a passive bite is in her repetoire but it may come about as she ages. She does push though, but only when comfortable, if she feels pressure or stress she will pull.
and i would say that it is nerve related so if she's pushing shes under threshold if she starts pulling she is over
by the way there's a fella who has bred Kelpie x EBT and the litter is very good, I'm wanting to use one of the pups from the litter over Rosie in the future, taht is my next breeding step
well it would be but he seems to have fucked off from fb
Sali's grips are nice. Can see the defensiveness in her, though.
Ok, just read your observations re the decoy bit...
Cool info, again...
ps. Hope you catch up with the EBT x kelpie guy.
Zany mix!
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